Glitches and Bugs guide updating thread

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Glitches and Bugs guide updating thread

Postby Master ZED » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:53 pm

Due to my lazy nature, I've decided to keep only one thread with all of the bugs that need to be added to the Glitches and Bugs guide, along with any updates. Thing is, I have the bugs I need to add, but they're all over the place and it would be better for me to just have people report them in a single thread instead.

Anyway, go ahead and put up any bugs that aren't in the guide here, whether you've told me or not.

Updates;

The guide has been updated! Thank you all for your submissions! Hopefully everyone that submitted a bug got a mention somewhere, if you didn't, PM.

Of course, keep posting all the bugs you can find, as this guide has no defined end.

Off-topic edit: I just want somewhere to put this. It turns out I was dead wrong about Mute being a dummy enemy spell. It is used by Naughty. I guess that's why no one ever caught the error. :\ So now I need an Attack guide update as well. Great....
Last edited by Master ZED on Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:47 pm, edited 17 times in total.
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Postby SpamDroid Alpha » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:08 pm

I know this isn't too relevant, but what was the difference between a bug and a glitch again?
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Postby Master ZED » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:11 pm

A bug is an error that was deliberately programmed unintentionally, while a glitch is something that occurs due to an outside force.
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Postby Imzogelmo » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:23 pm

Final Fantasy 6

Non-final strike not required for triggering X-type instant death attack.
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Postby RuneLancer » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:19 am

SpamDroid Alpha wrote:I know this isn't too relevant, but what was the difference between a bug and a glitch again?

A little follow-up to Master Zed's reply to this; where I work, a bug is something that produces unexpected and/or unwanted results due to the programmer's fault (ie, bad logic or overlooked conditions). A glitch is the same, but occures outside of the actual programming.

For instance, a program at work is considered bugged if something occures because of problems in the source code (we make a distinction: an anomaly is a cosmetic bug and a bug is, well, a bug; for instance, a button on a website staying in the "pushed" graphic is an anomaly, but if it doesn't function anymore as well and can't be pushed a second time then it's a bug.). If, for instance, we were to put the working, non-bugged program on a disk and some dillhole decided to put a stack of magnets on it and the contents of the disk were corrupted but still executable, the resulting crash would result because the program was glitched from a soon-to-be-fired individual in the marketing division. ;)
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Postby Assassin » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:21 am

I'm repeating a lot of crap you're already aware of here, since accosting you on AIM has lost its novelty. ;P Plus, there will be at least ten witnesses that I indeed mentioned this stuff, that the senility is purely yours! :D

Imzogelmo wrote:Final Fantasy 6

Non-final strike not required for triggering X-type instant death attack.


1) I'd list that with the Dragon Horn + Tempest bug, even if it means having an FF6j-specific entry within a general one. Though you can contend that Square omitting the check in FF6j's insta-death weapons routine is its own problem, the root cause of the bugs is the same: Fight and Capture reload the attack data from the weapons data before every strike. Jump only loads the weapons data once for the command.

While you're at it, add ThiefKnife (after it tries to steal once, will try to steal every remaining strike in the turn) and Ogre Nix (after it breaks, remaining jumps will do damage as if you still held it).


2) Speaking of Ogre Nix, another bug with it and Jump is that your character will appear barehanded on the jump that breaks it. Contrast with the less prophetic Fight command.


3) Since you're including graphics, this certainly qualifies (pasted from my GameFAQs post):

When jumping between buildings in Zozo, your character "double pumps". When jumping to the left, they understandably squat facing left. But when jumping to the right, they also squat left, which requires some goofy physiology to make that leap. :P Hell, they even face the wrong direction when *completing* the jump (apparently pulling themselves up by thin air), something i just realized a few seconds ago.


4) And from the very thread I was replying in, mblock129's Zephyr Cape observation:

"From: mblock129 | Posted: 11/5/2004 10:41:55 PM | Message Detail
The Zephyr Cape blocking animation consists of two different sprites of the Cape. When a character faces left, as in a normal attack, the first one is put behind the character and the second one in front. However, when attacked from behind, both sprites appear in front of the character.

This inconsistency not only makes the animation much easier to observe in a Back Attack, it also begs the question: is this a bug?"


[NOTE: the interested can read about #3 and 4 in this thread: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8998&topic=17313515 ]


5) "Imping a Raging character can cause a nasty bug. Essentially, they'll get the automatic nature of Rage (choosing Battle every turn), but *none* of the monster properties (some statuses may linger from earlier in the rage, but they won't be permanent anymore).

When someone's Imp status is toggled, a routine is called that recalculates their properties (elemental reactions, statuses and status immunities, special properties like Human/Undead/etc, stats including Battle Power, Defense, MBlock, and Speed) from scratch using their equipment. This is done because Imp status (or lack thereof) can affect the Battle Power and Defense ratings of equipment. However, this routine never reloads the Raged monster's data. Even worse, because several commands (including Rage) get swapped for Fight on Imps, an afflicted Rager won't have the monster properties restored until they take a turn as a non-Imp.

This bug also appears to be the only reason characters can't benefit from the 'Critical Hit if Imped' property."

Reword that however ye choose.


6) Any luck trimming the epic description for the bug with the coloration of commands on Gogo's righthand list? :)


7) Expand the "Counterattack from beyond" description to include Poison. I'm sure Seizure will do it as well. Did we hypothesize that the Poison/Regen/Seizure damage "attack" has to be queued up by a certain time for it to meddle with the enemy counter?


8] Mute steals your Rage-inflicted status on attempted spell casts -

Swap out "lack of MP" for Imp, as we discussed. Also, I believe your description can get a little more specific on the bug's consequences. In particular, you can be robbed of permanent statuses only if the bug happens on the *1st* Rage turn. If the first turn went off without a hitch, you're all good. (Once you're "locked into" permanent statuses, subsequent turns can't screw you.) Your non-permament status description needs no revision, because those statuses can always be removed mid-Rage by Dispel and such (or for Intangir's Clear, simply a spell hitting you).

While your two monster examples are great, the list of monster statuses meant to be permanent might help the reader for other Rages:

Mute, Berserk, Muddle, Seizure, Regen, Slow, Haste, Shell, Safe, Reflect, and Float.

(as you know, enemies can technically have a Removable Float, but no actual ones set that without the normal Float.. so you don't have to confuse your readers by asterixing Float ^__^).


9) What about Randomosity? Normally, I'd say that a flaky random number generator is more of a design "limitation" than a bug.. But this flakiness can prevent certain attack formations altogether, even when the data says they're fully possible. IMHO, 0% vs. 5% is a world apart from something like 5% vs. 10%.

If my supplemental document and GameFAQs posting are still muddy, I can help you come up with a clear, brief description of the problem. Including the monster group list is optional. ;)

The main question is whether we should start this off as an FF3us-specific bug and wait for it to be verified elsewhere, or start it off as a general bug and see if it's disproven on other flavors.
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Postby Assassin » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:57 am

10) http://www.mnrogar.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=96

And regarding #8:

Gau's corpse not floating if he Raged Balloon and used Exploder on the first Rage turn would also fit in here. your call on whether it gets a separate listing.

We talked about putting custom monsters (e.g. one that starts with Slow status and casts Haste as a Rage) into the "Glitches/bugs seen via hacking" section, as they are additional casualties of this bug. Might wanna hold off for now, because there are two more hacking variants I recently came across. They've quickly turned a small addendum in the patch Readme into a hulking section. :/
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Postby Imzogelmo » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:13 am

Djibriel had one about Magitek not getting turned off between that scene in Cyan's Dream and the fight with WrexSoul. I don't remember exactly how he triggered it.
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Postby Assassin » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:35 am

ah, and the ever ambiguous Pink Gogo.
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Postby SpamDroid Alpha » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:10 am

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So anything doable within a game itself is a bug, but if you screw with a game due to ROM hacking or Game Genie or something similar, it's a glitch?
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Postby Assassin » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:44 am

11) SrBehemoth in the Veldt Cave giving you ThunderBlade or Jewel Ring. Do you want me to paste the description you wrote up way back when?

12) Vanish + X-Zone on the first SrBehemoth screws you out of ever meeting the undead SrBehemoth on the Veldt. This should be listed arm-in-arm with the notorious Doom Gaze bug.
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Postby Djibriel » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:01 am

13) The MagiTek bug appears whenever you switch the character in-battle locations in the MagiTek part of Cyan's Dream. When the bridge collapses and you find yourself in the new MagiTek-less dungeon, the same three characters that were initially MagiTek'D are stripped. If put a character in a previously empty slot (say, #4), then the MagiTek won't be stripped outside of battle and you'll see it in the cutscenes. I don't know what happens when you take the party straight to another cutscene (Gau's father, for instance) or what happens if the previously empty place is the #1 Leader place.

14) Red Reflect barrier due to Purifier.
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Postby Assassin » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:48 am

15) Enemy Runic + X-Zone bug

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmes ... c=17152553

in case that topic falls off:

From: Proto K | Posted: 10/28/2004 11:52:08 PM | Message Detail

Okay, I think this might have been mentioned before, but today I was using FF3USME and was messing around. I gave a monster protection against all statuses, and gave them the Enemy Runic special byte.

When I went to fight the monster, I tried a bunch of different spells to test. However, once I used X-Zone, the monster did Runic like Normal, but then got swallowed by the X-Zone despite instant death protection. However, it was still alive, and attacking me, and I could not target it with anything (even Fight) since it was no longer there. There were bno other monsters in the group, just one of the monster I edited.


Any explanations? I've tried this several times and it still does the same thing, makes the monster invisible and unable to be targetted, though it still attacks.


From: Master ZED | Posted: 10/29/2004 12:08:24 AM | Message Detail

Yep. Same thing that happens whenever X-Zone hits; X-Zone's graphic makes the monster's graphic invisible when it hits. Life, Life 2, Life 3 status, Fenix Down, so long as it's a normal (i.e. non-enemy command only) revival, they will revive invisible.

Runic just proves the point further. They don't even have to die to turn invisible, they just have to be hit. I encountered the same thing years ago experimenting with custom spells, it's all the fault of X-Zone's graphics.
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Postby Master ZED » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:42 pm

11) No thanks, I c/p'ed it in awhile back.

14) Dji, that's already in the latest release. Check the sheet.

15) Hmm... alright, that one may need listing. It'll go under section 7 since, like you, I can't think of any way to get X-Zone in the WOB.

Also, my reply was needed anyway as I obviously need to revise the Life 3/X-Zone description.
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Postby Djibriel » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:05 pm

Dji, that's already in the latest release. Check the sheet.

Yes, it would appear so, although I wouldn't feel comfortable completely ignoring the possibility that I was still right to assume otherwise. There could, for instance, be an overly complex theory out there combining the powers of mind control and time travel which has the convenient ability to be used in this case and in my favor.

In a more solid defense, my computer's been a little buggy and I had no chance of looking at the sheet. Maybe at GameFAQs, but I'm too lazy to check it over there.
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Postby Djibriel » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:11 pm

16) The four items in the floating chests in Owzer's mansion are not quite what they appear to be. There was a topic about. Much like the Cave of the Sealed Gate buried treasures, they are events are following Square's logic, also the very essence of wrong.

I'm not entirely sure which items they were, but 'tis easily checkable in the Event Script so I'm counting on you to work it out.
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Postby Mnrogar » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:43 pm

Latest edit: I'm gonna slap Equip any weapon under Undetermined unless mnrogar can convince me otherwise,


Anything specific I can do? I don't get why I'm so special. Tried it on anthology, it works.
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Postby Master ZED » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:48 pm

The reason you're special is that since you can try it, you can tell me whether you think it's a bug or not by experience and not just reading about it. The thing is, the "bug" is so specific in how it works that to me, it really appears intentional. Only weapons work with it, you can only use it for weapon hands, and it recognizes Genji Glove's presence and acts accordingly. How would Square mess up such an Equip Anything fix to this effect by pure luck? The answer I think is that they didn't mess up and what appears to be a bug is something they put in as a secret trick for those who remember the original bug in FF6j.

That's especially considering Gau doesn't have the Merit Award anymore. This "bug" is a nice concession to Gau fans, dontcha think?

The only thing that doesn't fit my theory is that the original bug as the vast majority remembers it is Equip Anything as a Helmet, but I'm sure a little fiddling with it is all it took Square to figure out what it could really do.
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Postby Assassin » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:18 pm

Bah, when you talk about "secret tricks", you're giving them far too much credit. And you seem to be forgetting the true theme of your guide, the unwritten Bug #0 and Bug #N:

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Postby Assassin » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:12 pm

ZED: can you try it with Gauntlet too? see if the bug/"bug" still works, and if it'll let you equip non-weapons.

i suggest that because there's a separate routine for handling Optimize with Gauntlet.. if Square overlooked that and it behaves differently, it could help us guess better on their intent.
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