Darn those Mag Roaders!

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Darn those Mag Roaders!

Postby Djibriel » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:50 am

Those Mag Roaders on the mine cart ride should be documented in the Rage Guide. Sadly, I'm not sure what it is *exactly* what does the trick. Common belief is that the main character takes care of this. This is a more-or-less proven fact? And do we know what character will give which results?
"The population in Iraq is over 80% Shi'ite. Couldn't the same be said about your music, Mr. Durst? "
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Postby Assassin » Sat May 07, 2005 12:44 am

witness how i boldly redefine the mine cart!

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmes ... c=20801966

:P

[EDIT: Archived at http://web.archive.org/web/201510210153 ... tactic.htm ]

7F:1F6D, the RNG index used to choose which group in the 2-pack you fight, looks to be tied into the first party member's graphic somehow.

what tipped me off is that i did a full trace of getting into battle on the emulator. $1F6D was 6414h after a reset and loading from the save point, and the trace shows nothing but it being incremented once right before battle. so it should've been 6415h, yet it's magically 7A00h when i popped into the debugger during battle. (only the bottom byte matters for RNG purposes, but at least 2 bytes seem to vary based on the lead party member in battle.)

a full trace even shows every address of a MVN/MVP copy, so what could get by undetected? DMA. and what loves to use DMA? graphics. the first character aspect was already common knowledge, so i decided to put a little twist on it with Imping.

as you recall, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles made a subway station their home in the second film, so it is only natural to add a reptilian persuasion to this underground setting.


all this leads me to take issue with 7F:1F6D. why have the RNG call increment it when it's just going to be overwritten by something unrelated right after that? so pointless. when you load a game file, C0/B91B advances several counters: RNG indices 7E:1FA2 and $1FA3 (which are used to choose which formation in a pack you meet, as well as choose within a Veldt "group"), RNG indices 7E:1FA1 and $1FA4 (which are used upon every step to determine if you should get into an encounter), the Veldt Group counter in 7E:1FA5, aaand another variable -- 7E:1F6D. Bank C0 just so happens to use $00:1F6D (aka $7E:1F6D) as an RNG index, which gets heavy action when you're inside towns.

Bank EE uses $1F6D as an RNG index in several places, one being the Mag Roader battles. but for those battles, at least, it's 7F:1F6D.

is it really just some Super Big Happy Coincidence (tm) that Square likes to give two completely separate RNG indices the same Offset for no good reason? or did they fall asleep on the crapper?

for any hardcore programmers here: i'm sure you've taken on some goofy naming conventions for variables :) , but do you go out of your way to make sure variables of similar types get matching addresses? come on.

i haven't studied Bank EE nearly enough to make any judgment confidently, so maybe it's just this game's 400 other bugs that have me doubting Square here.
Last edited by Assassin on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: updated archived topic link
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Postby Djibriel » Sat May 07, 2005 5:41 am

Aha! Rather than your lead character by itself, the catalyst of the various formations lies in the in-battle appearance of it, it seems. Is it perhaps the palette used? When I reach this point on my playthrough, I will have all characters with me and it's only a matter of time to compile a small list which has been notoriously lacking so far; which characters will get you 'red' and which won't.

The similair offsets make me smile. :) Exploring this game has partly been studying the grotesque psychology of the Japanese, and it is ever-so delightful at times ;)

P.S. As Kappas are water-based entities it's safe to say they're amfibian and your Mutant Hero Turtles reference is moot. Then again, as they eat man-flesh have freaking fish bowl for a head, they're actually demons. The best comparison I can think of is Dante's Hell in the Divine Comedy, but keeping in mind the kind of person who's going to read it, maybe I'll just stick to the Turtles instead :twisted:
"The population in Iraq is over 80% Shi'ite. Couldn't the same be said about your music, Mr. Durst? "
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Postby Mnrogar » Sat May 07, 2005 8:57 am

I had made a list at some point... if you bother to call a mere 5 items a list (Locke, Cyan, Edgar, Sabin, Gau). I think it was just too simple, but annoying, since you can't have all of them in one playthrough for anybody to say definitely.

The only thing I remember now is that the 2 brothers gave you different forms.
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Postby Imzogelmo » Sat May 07, 2005 10:43 am

Assassin wrote:Bank EE uses $1F6D as an RNG index in several places, one being the Mag Roader battles. but for those battles, at least, it's 7F:1F6D.


Most likely they forgot to change the data bank back to 00 before doing the selection. You'll note that these battles are accessed from a long call right out of EE, which makes them notable if not unique. Thus, this would-be random selection is actually just loading from a random hellhole (which just so happens to be related to the first character somehow).

What's that? A bug? Yeah, I'd say so, in light of assassin's new information.
That's my opinion, anyway. :?
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Postby Assassin » Sun May 08, 2005 5:38 am

Is it perhaps the palette used?

the value doesn't change with Petrify status, though i'm not sure where that gets its colors. it's also unaffected by Wound, which suggests the value is more "general" than specific (iow, maybe it points to a sprite collection rather than the final sprite.. that's a complete guess).


to cater to those maniacal quasi-perfect-game LLGers (the rare breed of folks who combine OCD and arachnophobia into one jittery package): i believe you can make it so only one red Mag Roader is fought in addition to the "minimal" purple sequence if you cast Imp in the 2nd battle and remove it in the 3rd. :) do any of you know whether that's small enough to avoid more levelling?
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Re: Darn those Mag Roaders!

Postby Assassin » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:35 am

necro bump, for posterity and recognition:

http://assassin17.brinkster.net/crk-min ... leader.htm

I'd forgotten about it until at least a year after this 2005 thread. CRK was onto 7F/1F6D before anybody. he didn't quite follow what everything meant, but he was a trailblazer.
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Re: Darn those Mag Roaders!

Postby Djibriel » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:25 pm

When HBO is going to produce that mini-series about the FFVI bug hunt, they will be very thankful for these archives.

I propose Ron Livingston as Imzogelmo and Ryan Gosling as your truly. I'm not sure what the other people in this thread look like, so for diversity's sake I'm thinking Donald Glover and Bryce Dallas Howard.
"The population in Iraq is over 80% Shi'ite. Couldn't the same be said about your music, Mr. Durst? "
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Re: Darn those Mag Roaders!

Postby Imzogelmo » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:02 pm

I should point out that my theory about the data bank turned out to be correct. I made a bug fix patch for this at one point which explains in a bit more detail, but I recall that MVP/MVN screw with the data bank register somehow.
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