Attack Guide updating thread

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Attack Guide updating thread

Postby Assassin » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:42 pm

ZED gave me the OK on this, so don't think i'm some rat bastard who calls out other people's work in public forums for thrills. ;P

because this board will never drop old topics, it's a great place for "To-do" style threads, as illustrated by the impressive Bugs and Glitch Guide one. AIM convos and emails yield too many little files to search through, and GameFAQs topics have about as much longevity as their creators' brain cells. here, a simple bump dissolves rust better than any chemical can hope to.

here goes:

1) "Stamina involved in defense equation." -- scrap for "dodging equation" or "hit probability" or something.


2) Flare Star: "Lowest target's level" -- s/b "Random target's level".

also, i'm a bit shaky about "determines total damage". while that's technically right, it can be interpreted as "final damage for a target" rather than "sum of damage to all targets". a formula with " / number of targets" seems a little more clear. what's everybody else's thoughts on this?


3) "If Mog is thrown, increase damage**"

nothing wrong with this and its footnote, but further findings can make it a little more precise. If Mog is thrown, Always Critical is set. however, because Umaro's Tackle and Throw ignore defense, and they fail to also set the "Don't Ignore Critical when Ignoring Defense" bit, the thrown Mog measure is for naught. for the same reason, you'll never see the random 1-in-32 critical either of these attacks should allow, either.


4) Seize:

maybe you want to note that in contrast to normal drain attacks, this one isn't capped by the drainer, but only the drainee*. iow, at full Tentacle HP, it just functions as a damaging attack.

* if undead target, drainer and drainee are switched for purposes of that statement.

Also, isn't the damage closer to 60 than 30? here's the setup; feed those numbers into the Magical Damage equation:

Code: Select all
C2/51BB: 20 8A 29     JSR $298A   (Clear special effect, magic power, etc.)
C2/51BE: 9C AE 11     STZ $11AE   (Set Magic Power to 0)
C2/51C1: A9 10        LDA #$10
C2/51C3: 8D AF 11     STA $11AF   (Set Level to 16)
C2/51C6: 8D A6 11     STA $11A6   (Set Spell Power to 16)
C2/51C9: A9 28        LDA #$28
C2/51CB: 8D A2 11     STA $11A2   (Sets to only ignore defense, heal undead)
C2/51CE: A9 02        LDA #$02
C2/51D0: 8D A3 11     STA $11A3   (Sets to Not reflectable only)
C2/51D3: 0C A4 11     TSB $11A4   (Sets Redirection)


that'll yield 64, which you then run through Step 6 (Random Variance) to get [57..64]. i'm definitely interested in how you saw 30; did you maybe use the Test Patch to have a character Seize, and suffered from Self Damage reduction?

and yes, setting Magic Power to 0 ought to make the "Level = 16" statement pointless.

perhaps such extrapolation is better for the Algorithms FAQ, but i really don't feel like trying to contact Terii. :P


5) "Berserk - Forces inflicted to Fight/Battle every turn,"

Capture, Jump, and MagiTek are also allowed by Berserk.


6) Health: i'd put a note that says it uses Cure 2's stats, since that's a nifty connection you discovered, and you do similar things for Roulette. maybe do the same for Shock and Megahit, though that's a bit less important due to Megahit not being used by other means (?).


7) "seperate" ==> "separate" :P


8} Introduce a new field for "Text if hits when casted by monster." Better yet, include the exact message. :) Sure, it pales in comparison to meaningful consequences like damage, but it's some good, relevant info.


9) Maybe add Overcast (and its accompanying brokenness) to the bottom of the Status section?
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Postby Djibriel » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:32 am

Possess
Physical attack
Hits one enemy
Kills enemy and removes caster from active party.
Unblockable
Retargets if target is dead.
Special Effect:
50 = Kill enemy and caster, remove caster from current party (Possess)

It should be noted that Possess will miss 50 % of the time. That lies in its special effect (as it's otherwise unblockable). I don't think you should actually list it after the 50 = bit, though. Maybe a little note at the end?
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Postby Djibriel » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:35 am

5) "Berserk - Forces inflicted to Fight/Battle every turn,"

Capture, Jump, and MagiTek are also allowed by Berserk.

As is Rage. Zing!
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Postby Assassin » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:32 pm

Djibriel wrote:
5) "Berserk - Forces inflicted to Fight/Battle every turn,"

Capture, Jump, and MagiTek are also allowed by Berserk.


As is Rage. Zing!


the rest of ZED's paragraph already said that. :P
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Postby Assassin » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:37 am

Djibriel wrote:It should be noted that Possess will miss 50 % of the time. That lies in its special effect (as it's otherwise unblockable). I don't think you should actually list it after the 50 = bit, though. Maybe a little note at the end?


according to Terii's comments, it'll miss 106/256 of the time (by"miss", it's really removing all targets so as to abort). i'd put it in the 50h description, since as you said, it is part of the special effect.

now that's the once-per-attack special effect. as for the once-per-target special effect, it gets a bit confusing. it almost seems as if: "50% chance to treat attacker as attacker for counters, 50% to treat victim as attacker." the latter case means one attacked oneself, which most types of counters will disregard. you can't really counter the possess either :P , though i suspect many monster attacks would auto-retarget.

so maybe that part of the effect says that eligible monsters will only counter Possession 1/2 of the time?
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Postby Assassin » Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:48 am

ok, now i'm reading the second effect as "For countering purposes, mark Possessor as attacker of Possessee, and Possessee as attacker of Possessor." the 50% flip (in function C2/361B) should always pass, so probability won't be a factor here.

however, FC 05 is never countering Possess in my tests (anybody know why?!), so i can't yet say why Square bothered with all this.

EDIT: that's because FC 05 only counters damage, dumbarse.
Last edited by Assassin on Fri May 27, 2005 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Djibriel » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:40 am

Which comments are you talking about? C2 bump and Algorithm FAQ give me nothing on the subject as far as I can see.
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Postby Assassin » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:01 pm

C2/4095, the once-per-attack special effect. i think i'll go slap "Possess" on it for the sanity of Ctrl+F'ers.

the once-per-target special effect, C2/3B98, has no comments besides a title.
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Postby Djibriel » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:00 pm

I can't say I disagree with you. It's just that in my early days, I thought I had discovered that Possess hit 50 % of the time. Hell, I remember Imzogelmo and assassin to confirm it for me; now I can't see anything that would lead me to believe that.

I even remember it was the first message I had to bring to the GameFAQs board after you gracefully answered that trivia question about the frozen timer and the Condemned status; it sucks when your babies are murdered like that :(
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Postby Assassin » Wed May 18, 2005 2:22 am

11)

add the probability of Chainsaw choosing its Instant Death attack. while the figure (1/4, afaik) is widely known by vets, it's apparently not documented anywhere:

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmes ... c=21020495
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Postby Assassin » Thu May 26, 2005 6:30 pm

back to my tangent on the counterattack madness: C2/362F has a ROR, but nothing that calls it bothers to SEC or CLC beforehand (except for arguably C2/12F5), so the Carry Flag (and thus the top bit of $32E0,Y) has some unrelated crap. :x

[EDIT: zapped a bunch of wrong info]

it's called in three different places:

1) in C2/384A, which is called by several special effect routines, like Possess, Pep Up, and Spiraler. because the nearest thing to affect the Carry Flag is a CPY $33F8 miles away ($33F8 holds the Zinger perpetrator, which has nothing to do with anything), Carry will normally be clear here (as the Zinger variable is a null FFh in practically every battle).

2) in a damage modification routine if redirection (aka drainage) is occurring. what it does is save the target as the caster's attacker. that sorta makes sense, since trying to drain an undead saps the caster. Carry is normally set at this point, though depending on what happens in the call that makes Zombie physical attacks randomly inflict statuses (which is bloody unrelated), it can be cleared.

3) in the "Do Damage" function, the attacker of an entity is saved, provided actual damage was done to the entity (so healing and 0 damage don't count). Carry should always be set here, though i dunno if that's planned or another accident. :? right after this, the attacker will also be put in $327C,Y (used for the entity's FC 05 counter), provided attacker =/= damaged entity.


note that unlike the similar C2/361B (which i won't get into for now), if C2/362F is called with another attacker on the same turn, it will keep the original "who attacked this target" intact, provided the top bit of $32E0,Y is set.

anybody care to assist in making sense of this? i've never been so confused in my life. :cry:
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Postby Assassin » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:45 am

now back on topic:

12)

Mind Blast - besides its statuses being random, so is who they're inflicted on. what its first special effect does is make a 4-entry list of random victims (there can be duplicates). the second special effect will see if an original target of the spell is on that list, and if so, try to give them a random status. somebody who's listed N times can get N statuses from the spell.

"Hits all enemies" is still technically right, but i'm pretty sure it's possible some targets will be essentially unaffected.
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Postby Assassin » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:08 pm

back off-topic: even if you're not a Zombie, the Carry Flag is still based on nonsense for the redirection case. C2/362F will set the top bit of the attacker's $32E0 if the attack is physical, but it'll be clear if it's magical. go figure.

fortunately, i'm finding the C2/362F calls made via Possess won't *do* anything, thanks to the C2/361B call within the effect (done for the possessor), and the C2/35E3 call before the effect (done for the possessee).

also, i don't think 362F will do anything for the Pep Up special effect, once again due to 35E3.

however, there's still Spiraler, where the Blitzer will be saved as their own attacker. then again, Spiraler is an ability unique to characters, and i don't know of any way characters can counter magical attacks.

(if you're wondering what the hell i'm carrying on about, i'm trying to pinpoint the effect C2/362F can have on the game, as i've deemed it a most evil function [outside of C2/12F5, where it's predictable, albeit shady.] feel free to join in, anybody. :P )
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Postby Imzogelmo » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:03 am

I was wondering what the hell you were talking about, but now I see that you've updated your C2 bank disassembly, so there's a lot of notes that I haven't seen which should clear up some confusion...
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:49 am

If you ever feel like adding Enemy Steal to the document, I've figured out that, basing my calculations on the given value for level 1 (276 GP), Stolen GP = 276 * Stealer's Level - 20 * (Stealer's Level - 1), which can be simplified to 256 * Stealer's level + 20.

Success rate also depends on the stealer's level, but I can't tell whether the algorithm is identical to the one that is found in the algorithm FAQ or not.
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Postby Assassin » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:28 am

have you looked at the Bank C2 disassembly?

http://www14.brinkster.com/assassin17/guides.htm

the (level * 256) + 20 is there. the fail chances are simply 1/4.
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:42 am

Assassin wrote:have you looked at the Bank C2 disassembly?

http://www14.brinkster.com/assassin17/guides.htm

No, but now I will...
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Postby Imzogelmo » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:11 pm

I'd like to see a revision of the targeting descriptions. For example, Fire can be cast at one/all enemy(ies) or ally(ies).
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Postby Djibriel » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:42 pm

3F = Ailment uses spell hit rate to determine a hit or miss (Stunner)

You should mention this isn't your average 140 Hit Rate; it's actually a completely random 140/256 chance the status ailment is set if at all possible, disregarding M. Block. It had me boggled why lowly Crawlers ignored the Stop status before I took a look at the code myself (assassin spells out the thing in his dump).
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Re: Attack Guide updating thread

Postby Assassin » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:30 am

14) add that Lores can't be learned when under Berserk status to Section 19. i'd missed this in my Lores Acquisition Guide until a few years back; we both apparently worked off the Algorithms FAQ. :P
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