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*tempted to pull a Fujin*

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:12 pm
by Djibriel
Teh Djibriel has a question for you, and I'm thinking this may well be a very nice thread in the long run.

See, there's this Rage FAQ at GameFAQs.

On second thought, there isn't a Rage FAQ at GameFAQs, and that needs to change :D

After discussing some stuff with assassin I tried to assemble a list of bosses and the ultimate Rage in those fights. I discovered very quickly this is a matter of preference. So I thought this should be open for interpretation thus be decided by more than just one person. For instance, what's best for Atma? A Merton/Flame Shield combo? NightShade, but a fire weakness? Magic Pot, but the terrible amounts of time that will take in, for instance, a SCC?

So here's five boss moster formations in alphabetical order:

Air Force, Laser Gun, MissileBay, Speck
Blue Drgn
Chadarnook, Chadarnook

I'm personally tempted to go for:

Rhinox (death protection against Missile and Launcher, lightning-absorbtion for Tek Laser, Diffuser and WaveCannon and physical attacks, remains only Atomic Ray to worry about, and Speck when the Evade bugfix patch is applied).

NightShade, as Magic Pot will eventually have to deal with Ultima. A hard one as most Rages could apply with equipment changes.

Bomb, as it has the fire-absorbtion going for it, together more status protection than Grenade, weird as that may sound. Or Chimera when fighting along Edgar, for that %25 chance of boosting Aqua Rake in power.

Aspik, water absorbtion, Giga Volt.

White Drgn, for death protection, Starlet form healing and Chadarnook from hurting.

If we're half-way done with these we can discuss some more.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:08 pm
by Mnrogar
... what are you talking about? You're making a faq? You can't have nightshade for air force or atma weapon... you're not making much sense to me...

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:39 am
by Assassin
the 5 Rages he gave correspond (one-to-one) to each of the 5 boss battles above them.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:45 am
by Djibriel
Yes and yes. I was hoping to ensnare assassin and make it a duo-project, but he cleverly changed the topic of our PMs. At any rate Now discuss, dammit! There has to be a better one for Atma and AtmaWeapon, as I am only half-assed about those Rages anyway.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:41 am
by Mnrogar
Well, I'm always fond of my Intangir strategy for Air Force... what was that other rage strategy someone came up with after that?

but he cleverly changed the topic of our PMs.

And note how he completely avoided the subject here while still posting. :wink:

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:32 am
by Assassin
If I just shower you with answers, you kids won't truly learn. :P


Air Force -

Both your choices are great.

Rhinotaur: trade Death immunity for better offense.
Vaporite: Bolt absorption, Blaze ignores Runic
Chimera: trade Bolt absorption for Death immunity (and decent offense, if comparing to Rhinox/Rhinotaur)

Atma Weapon -

Meeplelard rightfully advocates Ing.

Chimera: nice vs. instant death -style attacks and blocks gobs of statuses, but leaves you open to Fire.
Muted Intangir: solid defense. although if you're capable of Muting Gau in the first place, you also have the Rasp/Osmose approach at your fingertips, which makes this fight significantly easier.

Blue Dragon -

Can't argue with Aspik. Trilium gets an honorable mention.

Chadarnook, Chadarnook -

Hold L+R whenever the dame shows her mug.

White Dragon is great.. I was especially indecisive here, with several alternatives (skipping most):

SrBehemoth: eats Condemned right up, and Fire 3 makes short work of the Demon. wear a Wall Ring to mootize Charm.

PowerDemon: same as above, but you're reflecting the decent Flare instead.

Allo Ver (needs a fix): Wall Ring once again, but you're trading Snow Muffler (and its Flash Rain absorption) for Gaia Gear in order to absorb Quake. Charm won't lower Quake's damage, as you're never reflecting it.

Atma -

My patented "Rage and Run" technique is godly here.

It's grand in conjunction with Magic Urn, but obviously not needed with Nightshade (which is cheap to the point that no self-respecting person is going to recommend it as a "strategy" -- a single mention of its utter domination at the top of the FAQ should be enough).

Another fine candidate is Woolly. Either with R&R, or if you can spare the HP and are going a more aggressive route.

I have several more methods in my notes, but I don't feel like typing 'em all now.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:11 am
by Djibriel
I agree on skipping NightShade aside as a general cheapy, but so would the Intangir trick together with Magic Pot. And yes, Ing would be very fabulous. You don't need to heal anyway, nice status protections (all significant, missing Death) and fire absorbtion.

Chupon, Ultros (Blackjack)
Crane, Crane
Curley, Larry, Moe
Dadaluma, Iron Fist x2
Dirt Drgn

Mag Roader (big purple). Inherent Safe for Tentacle and the many physical attacks from both, and Bio is nice for Ultros his weakness against poison in that fight. Downside is that Chupon does Fire Ball and you do fire weakness.

Anguiform The lightning weakness is there and a big problem should you be unlucky with the moves. However, Aqua Rake *will* kill either Crane in one hit, and this is such a sweet thing I'm willing to overlook the downsides.

Enuo is inherently reflective and does CleanSweep, which is favorable over Meteor from Boxed Set. This is because Curley, the one you want out as soon as possible, is weak against water. None of the other have any special attitude towards water, so it's all good. Too bad about Seizure, but you could let it work to you advantage and pick a Relic Ring.

Trilium. You really can't beat the raw power of Bio at that point.

Harpiai. Unremovable Float status and Dirt Drgn is weak against the wind-elemental Aero.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:24 am
by Assassin
I agree on skipping NightShade aside as a general cheapy, but so would the Intangir trick together with Magic Pot.

i dunno about that.. Muted Intangir or Magic Pot sacrifice offense for defense. there may be cases where offensive Rages beat them.

in contrast, Nightshade sacrifices nothing but integrity and time.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:26 am
by Djibriel
Now the real difficulties start coming!


Doom Gaze

Face, Long Arm, Short Arm

Girl, Sleep


Outsider. Snow Muffles for Ice absorbtion anyway, back row for Demon Rage, Pearl for an attack...and inherent Haste :) Only problem is a SCC where Pearl is nullified, but on this stage Gau should bring Demon Rage its damage to 0 in the back row anyway, so he has a good while to pound with the physicals.

What you really need is a Rage which helps against both Ice and Wind-elemental attacks, which has Death protection and can dish out decent amounts of damage in the same time. No such thing. Magic Pot takes care of all defensive needs, but Doom Gaze runs away and you don't want to play completely defensive here. So there's Io for Flare Star, nulling Aero yet needing a Snow Muffler for Ice protection. Another option is Toe Cutter for Death protection who also absorbs Ice...but a glaring weakness to Wind. So I'm saying Io here as a final.

With the Snow Muffler there for massive protection, we only need to worry about Dread and the many earth-elemental attacks that might be sent your way. Woolly is the best bet for this fight. Petrify protection and Earth-element absorbing helps out greatly. It's too bad there was no such candidate with Aqua Rake, as it would have fed off of the Wind and Water weaknesses resp. the Long Arm and Short Arm have. If you have a different way of absorbing Earth, pick Chimera by all means.

This may surprise people, but I've discovered the best bet for this fight is Red Wolf. He has Death protection, Mute and Sleep protection, and Rush (his stupid x 1.5 Special) should hurt plenty with a Merit Award. You'll want to pick a Flame Shield from the Item menu. Unfortunately, there is no Rage which combines the power to shrug of Merton, the needed status protections and and good enough offense to kill Girl. With the right move combo a Stray Cat Rage user can bite the dust pretty quickly, even with that Flame Shield.

Tyranosaur against Goddess. I know Meteo misses a lot, I know it's hardly taking advantage of the pincer attack and I know this rage doesn't inherently absorb either lightning or water/ice (it's even weak against Flash Rain, yikes!). However, combined with a Thunder Shld the elemental problems are over, there is death protection and a barrier-piercing attack in Meteo. Physicals should be avoided as much as possible with Love Token. Rhinox would take too long, you'll want this battle over as quickly as possible.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:47 am
by Assassin
doesn't Doom give itself Reflect when her aura starts shaking?

now it'll wear off in due time, but I'd recommend switching to White Dragon so you absorb the Pearl that comes back rather than suffer double damage from it.

one can hold L+R and guesstimate 30 seconds (or however long it takes), but that's an unneeded irritation here.

with Doom's filthy high Magic Defense and affinity for ForceField, Prussian (or Luridan, should ye like) and Stray Cat are grand choices.

Pearl should only do 1.23x the damage of Land Slide, so i'd sooner not putz around with elementals. according to me notes, Catscratch will overtake Land Slide at around Level 28 in this fight. <--- Nice tidbit, eh? and THAT, my friends, is why the abominable guide i was working on will never be finished. :P

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:56 am
by Djibriel
Ah, good points, sir. Those things can slip by. And I apologize for the Goddess Rage which undoubtedly was missing when you read this.

Stray Cat. Cliché and filthy it sounds to my ears. That, and Image, is why I'll choose Luridan/Prussian over Stray Cat. There isn't any significant advantage in this battle. Luridan is Floating, whoop-de-doo. That's all.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:11 am
by Assassin
good catch on Image; i hadn't thought of that.

Goddess is another one where i favor Rage and Run. simply because there's nothing you can do about Quasar besides exhausting her MP before her HP.

there were a few candidate monsters i had here, but one of my best is PowerDemon with Wall Ring, which renders Charm and Overcast laughable.

of course, Rage and Run is unnecessary time wasted if you have enough HP to withstand Quasars (Flash Rains will heal a Snow Muffler wearer). but it's one of the safest techniques out there, and you can often leave it unsupervised with buttons taped down.

Magic Urn is a great way to absorb nearly everything that comes at you, if you'd rather try to outheal Quasars than prevent them.

ChickenLip is a nice combination of Quake healing and offense, but only a wise option if you can somehow combine Water or Ice absorption with Gaia Gear (i.e. you're not playing by SCC rules -- is your guide going to be "Gau SCC", or just "Gau centric"?)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:22 am
by Djibriel
Gau centric. I try to avoid any kind of external influence. I won't say I don't need Sleep protection because somebody can whack him over the head anyway, and I'll try to avoid Equipment becoming a factor where possible (while it's not, as you have seen and most likely discovered yourself).

And I didn't think on the Snow Muffler absorbing Flash Rain...wait, I tried to ban equipment influence. That's it!

What exactly do you mean by Rage and Run? Just plain strongest offensive Rage with Merit Award and Marvel Shoes or something? Status and elements aside, that might just be the best way to deal with Goddess anyway.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:39 am
by Assassin ... -run-3.htm

yes, there was once a time where i posted more than quips and patch updates. :)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:24 am
by Djibriel
I see. The very thought disgusts me :P I'll use it as a side note, but I'll be damned if I pass it off as an actual strategy. Teh peoples would hate me for it.

Gold Drgn

Woolly. Gold Drgn does nothing but attack with lightning-elemental attacks which Woolly absorbs. There is no better offensive choice. Vaporite is a slower but equally effective Rage.


Attacks with a lot of different moves. Only Magic Pot can protect against all of them, and we're trying to find a balance between offense and defense, where MP is lacking. Therefor it's Ceritops who wins the day with inherent Safe, lightning absorbtion and Bolt3 for attack. Only downside is weakness against fire and its date with Atomic Ray, but that's nothing a Flame Shield can't fix if necessary.The odds AR will pop up are small anyway.

Hidon & Friends

Brawler. You're guaranteed to have it, it has inherent Berserk status and Stone has the power to muddle up to two Hidonites for you. But best of all, it absorb poison. An even better deal would be Cluck, but you'd have to sacrifice defenses for its Quake (Gaia Gear) and you'll have to encounter it in the same dungeon Hidon rests in.

Hit, Magic, Tools, Tiger

I'll edit later, I haven't quite decided between some of the better ones.

Ice Dragon.

Any kind of Rage will work with the Snow Muffler, especially those like Io, SrBehemoth or Brachosaur. But only Leafer and Toe Cutter absorb it naturally, of which the former should be superior with a Merit Award (and the latter without).

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:39 am
by Assassin
I'll use it as a side note, but I'll be damned if I pass it off as an actual strategy.

hey. evil or not, it's a hell of a lot more strategic than what you'll read in most places. not only do you pick a Rage for the situation, but you pick when to use its attack.

if high HP is the only reason you can avoid R&R for a battle, i'd hardly call "Endure this unblockable attack by raising your HP like a retarded automaton sheep" a strategy.

that's not just ego talking; Rage and Run is bloody brilliant. :)

barring Paladin Shield, i don't see any other ways to beat some of the game's toughest battles with one character at Level 1.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:48 am
by Djibriel
Oh, I'll admit it's pretty inventive, and I tip my hat for you coming up with it. It's just that it's a good strategy for a specific kind of battle for a specific kind of player. Really, in a normal game, would you consider this a useful tactic? I might as well list Magic Pot under 90 % of the battles and be done with it. I want to see what Rages are best suited for what battles, both considering offense, defense and fun while doing so.

You don't trick me into thinking the R&R button was a lot of fun to actually do, and it's hardly necessary in a non-LLG/SCC game.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:15 am
by Assassin
Oh, I'll admit it's pretty inventive, and I tip my hat for you coming up with it.

thanks.. pardon if i got defensive, but that's my baby. :)

I might as well list Magic Pot under 90 % of the battles and be done with it.

well, realize that R&R was only a last resort after I decided Magic Urn alone wouldn't cut it. my notes haven't pegged it for more than several battles so far, as i'm very aware of the tedium.

You don't trick me into thinking the R&R button was a lot of fun to actually do, and it's hardly necessary in a non-LLG/SCC game.

fulfilling, but i hardly contend it was fun. :) it's still reasonable to recommend part-time for battles like Chadarnook, though.

the problem is that if you're doing a "normal" playthrough rather than an LLG/SCC/NMG/etc, your party has lots of Magic at their disposal. later in the game, Level 3 elementals will be more efficient offensively than Rage (with its crappy Battle), choice status spells can cripple certain bosses, and there are a few cases where you won't need Rage's defensive capabilities. monster properties may make up for lack of elemental shields and Ribbons, but those are readily available unless you deliberately handcuff yourself on a playthrough.

in other words, how much can you pretend the player is missing?

a balance i had trouble finding in my defunct FAQ was how to keep the focus on Gau without getting blown away by Magic-intensive strategies. admittedly, this is tougher in the random battles, where you can have several enemies that won't be tamed by a one-size-fits-all Rage.

if you target the guide for a playthrough that has no restrictions, players will inevitably wonder why they're fiddling with a Swiss Army knife when they've got bazookas on the shelf behind them (and i'm talking reasonable Level 3 spells, Aero, Water Edge, etc, rather than the loathesome Ultima). then again, if it's only tailored for a specific type of challenge (e.g. SCC), the unnecessary defensiveness will drive players nuts, as you said.

at any rate, i think a "Gau SCC" section (using Meeple's FAQ as a model) would be a worthy part of the FAQ. it'll really let the wild child shine; if you wanna proceed with the normal playthrough first, that's plenty understood.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:30 am
by Assassin
i'll contribute a cake walk..

Skull Dragon -

Phase. Absorbs Fire, immune to Instant Death. Blow Fish's 1000 damage is slow and steady. Wear a Ribbon for Confuse.

Lich. Absorbs Fire, regenerated by Condemned. Decent Fire 2 attack. Wear a Ribbon for Confuse. even if you lack a Ribbon, absorbing your own spells makes this one pretty damned foolproof.

Ing. has benefits of Lich, and its LifeShaver reclaims Battle damage (which should be negligible with Snow Muffler). suck-ass offense makes this little more than a curiosity.

SrBehemoth for aggression, but you'll still take some damage from Elf Fire. Condemned will only refill your health. Recommend Poisoning before battle (e.g. face Didalos) to get a super Regen.

White Dragon. slightly weaker attack than SrBehemoth, but not bad.

if you have a Flame Shield on Gau, SrBehemoth's offense will make it the winner. if not, Phase or Lich.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:39 am
by Djibriel
A Gau SCC section? I see why you would say that, but I'm strongly opposed to it. Why?

It will be a Rage FAQ, but more importantly it will be *the* Rage FAQ. If somebody comes to a board and uses some semi-coherent English to get across he doesn't know what Rages to pick, he will be linked to this thing. Therefore it should be complete, right? There should be several options. Against Doom Gaze you could use Toe Cutter if you have a Thunder Shld, or you could use Io if you have a Safety Bit and/or a Wall Ring.

However, you should do this from a normal battle point of view, I think. That's not to say self-supportive Rages aren't a massive plus in the occassion Gau/Gogo is the last man standing, but one can easily overstrain himself wanting to be too happened to you, or so you say.

Yes, sometimes a Rage is inferior to a normal magic spell. But this is a Rage FAQ, no? It's neither a Gau FAQ nor any kind of a LLG/SCC FAQ. That's not to say it's interesting to drop a note here and there on Step Mine for LLG players and/or Magic Pot for SCC players, but I never intended it to be a full Gau Guide.

I want to put in quite a few Rages for every boss, as I don't want its success to depend on equipment. Heck, Paladin Shield, Ribbon and Safety Bit...where's the strategy? Who needs Red Wolf now? But I want to do this regardless of equipment, even though I often say that a Snow Muffler or a Fire Shield might be very nice indeed to fill in remaining holes of the defensive part.

But deliberate restrain on the game such as LLG's, SCC's, MMORPG's and CNN's? The fun of those is using the data you have to find out yourself, right? I provide plenty data here, but I'm going to support those challenges in this FAQ.

I might be ranting, but it's important for me to justify my actions, especially now I'm doing something somebody else did a load of work for.

Because a lot of things can be overlooked or are open for interpretation, I think I need other people (and especially you, assassin) to make beautiful music with this thing.

Hey, a normal battle can quickly turn into a SCC battle should you find yourself on the receiving end of a bad Level 5 Doom or something, so despite I don't want to relate this thing to an SCC FAQ, it should contain plenty to beat every monster by miles.