*tempted to pull a Fujin*

Talk about all aspects of the gameplay of Final Fantasy 3us/6j.

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Postby Assassin » Fri May 20, 2005 12:24 pm

Djibriel wrote:Hey, I didn't even know the word 'dormant' existed :)


it's a word i live by. :) my vocabulary may be limited in most other areas, but when it comes to slacking, i can rattle off words endlessly: dormant, inactive, lazy, apathetic, slothful, sedentary, immobile, hibernation, stasis, comatose, slumber, pillow..

that said, maybe "hidden" is better; i dunno. your call. :)


I'll change it. For those curious, the document WILL be updated. It's just that I'm working on other things, and when I finally got all the changes down, that @#% floppy broke on me :(


they still use floppies in Europe?
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Postby Djibriel » Fri May 20, 2005 1:57 pm

they still use floppies in Europe?


Only when we're out of slaves.
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Postby Djibriel » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:29 pm

Shouldn't forget to alter:

1) Winning the battle
2) Escaping the battle by any means
3) Having Locke die when he's still alone in his South Figaro scenario

Expand to Kefka's raid, Opera House, saving Terra.

- When you cast Stop on Gau, and you hurt him, he'll still run away if you
wait for Stop to wear off. If you put him to sleep, however, and hurt him with a magical attack and wait until Sleep wears off, he can still join your party.

Add the fact he'll be damaged upon entry :)

Now, just there using the above described trick and fight until you've fought a battle from Pack 34.

Where was I going with this sentence?

Green Beret’s

Bad Djibriel.

When you've ridden the elevator, go use the Save Point. Talk to Cid and he'll push you into a mine cart. Several battles will pop up. If they're all big, purple Mag Roader go reset the game and change the leader of your party. Try until you also find a small red Mag Roader. Do the boss battle and you're outside again.

The only monsters you'll find here are L. 50 Magic and Magic Urn.

Also L. 90

Oh, youthful ignorance. These are the monsters I listed as unobtainable in a perfect LLG:

Fidor, Rider, Sewer Rat, Bounty Man, Gigantos, Mag Roader (red), Sp Forces and Vermin.

Fidor, Rider, Sewer Rat, Bounty Man and Vermin all can be obtained by the simple-et-effective 'dying' method (oh suicide, is there any problem you can't fix?), and I'll need to see how Mag Roaders act in several situations; it's just the 4-headed party there which give superior experience. Anyway, that shrinks the list down to Gigantos, Sp Forces and possible the red Mag Roader. Not too shabby! Ideas for these three be mighty appreciated ;)

Coliseum

Consistency!

5.0 What are the changes in several releases concerning Rages?

I need to include the PAL version; the copy which is lying in front of me now is sad.

When teamed up with the Offering, this will produce four attacks of that 192 Base Power Wind Slash.

50 % of the time, dag-nabbit.

a 80 % of working

a 80 % chance of working

meaning that Dread can oen-hit KO

one-hit KO

Note that due to the damage formule of Stone, Gau will make a better Stoner then Strago'll ever be. For game purposes that is because Gau's Vigor is superior, and for real-life purposes that's because old people swallow medicine which makes them immune to drugs. ;)

Urban myth, needs rewriting while still insulting the elderly.

Also, I should totally not forget to list Magic Urn among the Legendary Strategies after pointing out he's in there every five words.
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Postby Assassin » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:12 pm

Section 8.1:

you missed Death Protection on Harpiai.

you mention Outsider has inherent Haste in its description, but oddly didn't put "Haste" at the top of its listing like you did with Vector Pup and Punisher.

under Rhyos: "it's elusive", s/b "its"

speaking of apostrophes, have i mentioned the guide is riddled with blocks of three gibberish characters because you tried to use the newfangled apostrophe instead of the normal, humble one? :P
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Postby Djibriel » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:59 pm

Yes, I know. In fact, I already have an almost entirely updated version on my computer which has the gibberish fixed; not the others, though.

You know, if you're looking for an entirely new errorspotting challenge, I know this guy who knows a guy who lives next to a guy who's writing a walkthrough like you've never seen before :wink:
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Postby Assassin » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:57 pm

If you Save and Reset and either Load with the in-game option or using an
emulator Save State, a number of 13 will be added to the monster formation
you're going to fight. If you're fighting in Pack # 4, you should normally
fight a battle out of Pack # 5 next. If you Save and Load/emulator Load from
the Title Screen, you'll fight a battle from Pack # 17.


actually, i'm pretty sure it works like this:

- reset and get to "load a save screen", 1 is added to battery backup value. it's battery backup, so you don't even need to save your game for this +1 to be retained.

- pick a slot, and another 13 is added. (ditto retained.) then the battery backup is copied into our Veldt group #.

- get into a Veldt battle, and 1 is added to our group #, then the group # is used to determine whom we fight.


the significance here is:

- if you load your game, get into a fight with group N, save/reset/reload, your next fight is with group N+14.

- because the Veldt group is loaded from our multi-purpose battery backup value but not copied to it, you can get in a gob of Veldt battles after loading your game, and they'll do nothing to advance the persistent counter. in other words: reset/reload, Fight group 1. fight group 2. group 3, etc, etc, etc. save/reset/reload, and you're on group 15. so 14 is added to the value established from the last *load*, not the last battle.

best test all this, since i'm not 100% positive.. and i can swear i've posted that before, but i can't even begin to guess where. :/

also, what's "emulator load" mean? if that's from savestate, it shouldn't do the +13, and if you're talking about a normal save slot loading, there's no reason to mention the word "emulator" as it only confuses.

finally, best throw up a disclaimer for Anthology, as a couple users of that abomination said it seems to pick a random group after reset.
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:32 am

#1 Forgot to add "Battle" to Goddess's and Gold Drgn's "Attacks."

#2 Gobbler's ability+auto-status were duplicated under the elemental properties section.

#3 "Covert: Will always be ecountered with another monster (Orog or SoulDancer, so kill the Covert and run)."

Orog-->Ogor; SoulDancer-->Tap Dancer

#4 "There are a grand total of two enemies I can come up with which use Rasp, so you should have no fear. "

-->Wizard, AtmaWeapon, L.20 Magic (Rage is unavailable), L.70 Magic (Rage is unavailable), Tritoch, Magic; thus, 4 out of 6 enemies are worth mentioning.

#5 "You must have successfully 'completed' the fight with this battle
formation in order for it to appear on the Veldt. Options which allow this
include:
1) Winning the battle
2) Escaping the battle by any means
3) Having Locke die when he's still alone in his South Figaro scenario"

"3)"-->It works in any situation where having your party destroyed doesn't lead to the Game Over screen. Also works if timer=0 puts an end to the battle.

#6 Should mention somewhere that everytime Gau returns from the Veldt, he's automatically placed in the front row.

#7 Should mention that Gau won't learn any Rage the first time he joins (battle with Dried Meat).

#8 From "3.2 Clearing the Monster Formations....elusive monsters"

-->Misses the enemies by WoB South Figaro (Rhinotaur, GreaseMonk, Rhodox)
-->Mt Kolts error: Vommamoth should be Tusker.

#9 "Go to the triangle-shaped island, but only if you have the Rhodox Rage. If so,execute it as soon as you encounter an Intangir. If you do anything else, Intangir will kill you using death, so try to avoid that."

-->"using death" = Meteo. Rhodox is not a necessity since Intangir aims his death-counterattack (Meteo) at his killer exclusively. Also, how about fleeing?

#10 "Dive head-first into the Cave of the Sealed Gate. It's near the Sealed Gate."

-->Redundancy...

#11 "You're bound to run into at least one wandering flame which will trigger a battle with Balloons. Even if you somehow manage to elude them all, you'll still open a door which turns out to be filled with four of them, so no worries."

-->That door can be avoided. Also, I'm pretty sure that the amount of Balloons is not fixed at 4.

#12 "You automatically fly to Maranda. Land here and go fight. In the desert there are two monsters: Cactrot and Hoover. Kill the Cactrot using Dice and run away from the Hoover for now (you just cleared the Rage). On the plains, there are Crawler for a while until you reach Jidoor. There's Reach Frog, Geckorex and Mantodea now. Back to the airship!"

--> Mantodea, Sprinter and Spek Tor can be fought by Maranda.

#13 "Fight TumbleWeed, Sprinter and Spek Tor. Do NOT enter the forest now, the forest will kill you."

-->Use Smoke Bomb, Warp or Warp Stone.

#14 "Go to Narshe and clear Red Wolf, Nastidon and Test Rider in the town. Take the hidden path you took in the Edgar scenario and you'll find Wizard and Psychotin the mines. Find Mog and pull the Moogle Charm from the place he was standing on. Get out and now enter the mines north of Narshe. You'll meet and clear two new kinds of Mag Roader here, a big yellow one and a small brown one. Proceed to the Ice Dragon and Tritoch. Beat them both and jump down intothe new Umaro dungeon."

-->Mag Roaders CAN be met in the cave left of entrance (1st screen, at least). Wizard & Psychot can be met where Ice Drgn is.

#15 "In the room where you fight Umaro, Tomb Thumb can be found."

-->Or in the room where the Pugs are.

#16 "Take the Moogle Charm off for a while. The only monsters you'll find here are L. 50 Magic and Magic Urn. The former poses no threat with Wall Rings and Revivify items, the second is a monster you'll want to clear the Rage from. When you're done, leave."

-->Safe & easy: inside the room with the Air Anchor Tool. By the way, you'll meet L.90 Magic in White Drgn's room.

#17 "Now it's time to head to the Triangle Island. The Intangir are gone, but ZoneEater will be more then willing to annoy you. While they have no Rage (whichis a sad fact given their respectable elemental properties), they will suckyou into a new dungeon. Monsters you fight here are Karkass, Tap Dancer,Covert and the highly rare yet extremely useful Woolly. Get Gogo for his Steal and Rage abilities and get out."

-->Ogor & Wart Puck aren't listed.

#18 "In the first dungeon, fight Critic, Pan Dora, Allosaur and Parasite."

-->Allosaurus

#19 Should definitely mention which monsters from Cyan's dream can also be encountered in the Ancient Castle (Barb-E, Suriander and Samurai).

#20 "The to-be-cleared Rages are Aquila, Chaos Dragon, Trixter, Necromancer, Phase, Parasoul, Sea Flower and Uroburos."

-->Since overall, you seem to care about this kind of stuff: Chaos Drgn, Necromancr.

#21 "Note that there are a few Rages which cannot be obtained when playing a 'perfect' Low Level Game. Those that are either impossible to obtain or very difficult to obtain are:"

-->Only Gigantos can mess a perfect LLG. Don't ask for details.

#22 "For the lowest amount of exp, you'll want to meet purple Mag Roaders only, so in a perfect LLG, no red Mag Roaders for you."

->False. There's no problem if you have Cyan and Gau in your party (and if use my Mag Roader guide :p)

#23 "6.0 Legendary Tactics...cheaper than a Brazilian prostitute ;)"

-->Io (Flare Star) isn't listed. HUGE mistake :x

#24 "Brontaur, Borras and Karkass are nice, but especially Pug is a great moment to pick a Deep Eye Rage. Pug is arguably the strongest monster in the game(he can obtain a 9999-damage inducing counter to everything you do with Step Mine), and a one-hit KO against it, completely legal, is very nice indeed."

-->Yeah, and if Gau uses "Battle" instead... BAM! Imp + Phantom does not make this enemy the strongest monster in the game IMO. Poison either.

#25 "WoR: Brontaur, Doom Drgn, Evil Oscar, Harpiai, Magic Urn, Mesosaur, Mover, Nightshade, Outsider, Prussian, Punisher, Retainer, Rhyos, Toe Cutter,Tyranosaur, Vectaur, Veteran, White Drgn, Woolly."

-->How about SrBehemot since Brontaur is in the final stage (still easily accessible, though)?

#26 Most of the supposedly "LLG" or "SCC" tickets really annoyed me. Unless the said Rages would give the rager protection from certain ailments/elements which would give him invulnerability, you'd be stupid to not cast the spell (or use Tools) just once rather than hope you won't get a "Battle" from your raging Gau/Gogo. Not to mention how useless and risky it is to have an uncontrollable character try to set the status ailment every turn once the status has been set already. Remember, we're talking about challenges here.
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Postby Assassin » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:50 am

how else do you cast the spell if Gau is by himself, and SCC rules (which include pretty much every NMG rule) prohibit learning Magic from Espers or equipment?
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:03 am

Then that would be a SCC NMG, not a SCC...

And this quote does not make me think he was referring to a NMG:

Question: The toughest boss from an SCC Rager point of view?

Answer: Master Pug. If a move cannot be protected against by any Rage, you can always drain its MP before it starts using these powerful spells. With Step Mine not only being available for the entire battle, but actually being a counter to everything Gau can do to Master Pug, I think this is about the only battle I don't have an almost fool-proof LLG and/or SCC strategy for.

Unless he was going to drain the MP with a Rage...
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Postby Assassin » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:26 am

in FF6 land, SCC has been widely accepted as "SCC NMG", so as to force you to explore the characters' differences. i suppose that rule came about because everybody being able to learn Magic and mindlessly level everything in their paths is one of the largest criticisms of this game's design.

no idea on the Master Pug comment..

all i can say is that Meeple's SCC FAQ uses the NMG rules, and anybody on the boards whom i've seen complete the challenge also followed them.
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:01 am

Oh, I see. I'm not really interested in SCC so I wouldn't know. Speaking of Master Pug:

If he manages to get in a WallChange, the chances you'll win this battle are extremely reduced (there's a 87.5 % shot he won't take damage from Poison anymore), so reset if this is the case in your SCC meets LLG.

That is, unless he uses WallChange again, no?
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Postby Assassin » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:09 am

true.

but since there's only a 1/8 chance he'll become weak to Poison (as opposed to Nullifying or Absorbing it) each WallChange use after that, it's likely he'll wipe the floor with a LLG+SCC character before that can happen. after all, if he's awake to WallChange, he's awake to slaughter you with other attacks.

that's just my conclusion, anyway; i'll defer to Djibriel on this.
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:23 am

Well, if your character's equipped properly, only Step Mine may get to him, and it's not an automatic counterattack. Not that it guarantees your victory, but I sure would prefer to see how things would go instead of just reset the game...
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Postby Djibriel » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:49 pm

-->"using death" = Meteo. Rhodox is not a necessity since Intangir aims his death-counterattack (Meteo) at his killer exclusively. Also, how about fleeing?


The 'using death' part wasn't meant to be any kind of spell description. I figured everybody knows about Meteo, and if not, they will soon enough. You've got a point with the fleeing though.

-->That door can be avoided. Also, I'm pretty sure that the amount of Balloons is not fixed at 4.


Ah, but the door won't be avoided unless you specifically know what's behind it. Also, it IS a 4-headed monster formations. A forced pincer too, I might add.

-->Only Gigantos can mess a perfect LLG. Don't ask for details.


As you've seen from the rest of this topic, I've reduced the list to three. Sp Forces can be cleared by letting the timer run out (although you'll miss out on the Charm Bangle that way) and as we both know, Red Mag Roaders can be safely cleared with the newfound knowledge. So no, I don't think I'll ask for details; I already have 'em :D

Flare Star is only especially keen in several rare battles and LLGs. Not worhty of the title IMO, but I invite you to prove me otherwise.

On the subject of Master Pug: All his little Fire 3 and Pearl attacks are nice and all, but his major thing is Step Mine. It will slaughter you. It's not an automatic counter, sure, but he'll live long enough to fire a few off unless
you're working with spells outside of Rage.

On the MP-draining issue, I was referring to Rage & Run, which is the SCC NMG Rager's way of casting Rasp. No magic there. The whole premise of these boss battles, partly, was inventing ways of making Gau invulnerable in as many situations possible. If they annoy, I'm sorry; if you're playing a normal game though, there's always a simple Rage for you in the Guide.
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:58 pm

The 'using death' part wasn't meant to be any kind of spell description. I figured everybody knows about Meteo, and if not, they will soon enough.

Ok. I just found it weird that a spell which damage may not kill upon hit was to be referred as "death."

Ah, but the door won't be avoided unless you specifically know what's behind it.

What I meant is that the player may just never open that door. Many players play towards a goal which is to beat the game; they don't care about what they might have missed while they were playing, so they probably wouldn't retrace their steps so as to see what was on the other side of that door. Not that they would avoid all the flame sprites, though. :)

Also, it IS a 4-headed monster formations. A forced pincer too, I might add.

Yes, sorry. I had already verified that information in the meantime.

As you've seen from the rest of this topic, I've reduced the list to three. Sp Forces can be cleared by letting the timer run out (although you'll miss out on the Charm Bangle that way) and as we both know, Red Mag Roaders can be safely cleared with the newfound knowledge. So no, I don't think I'll ask for details; I already have 'em :D

You got one thing wrong, and it's to believe that you can cleat all Rages in the three-party battle in Narshe just by dying in every of them. You'd have to encounter one green guard, one brown guard (or 2 of the same color, I'll check that), Rider and Kefka; it's impossible (I'm not finished with my tests yet, but I'm positive I won't find a find to get the additional 1 step I need to achieve that) to reach Rider and Kefka twice with the same party or once with two parties while facing the other guards and getting thrown next back to Banon upon dying.

Flare Star is only especially keen in several rare battles and LLGs. Not worhty of the title IMO, but I invite you to prove me otherwise.


http://e.domaindlx.com/Novalia/Text/Fin ... 20Star.txt

You can also annihilate most regular enemy groups in 1, 2 or 3 hits.

On the subject of Master Pug: All his little Fire 3 and Pearl attacks are nice and all, but his major thing is Step Mine. It will slaughter you. It's not an automatic counter, sure, but he'll live long enough to fire a few off unlessyou're working with spells outside of Rage.

Gau could null physical damage and be equipped so as to absorb some of the elements (Mad Oscar absorbs two of them; Snow Muffler, one). I'd Rage & Run and let Gau unleash Sour Mouth once I'd see the Poison status damage back into action. I was just commenting on the "reset" part; it wouldn't take long before knowing if you'd still have a chance of winning the battle or not. Editing that out is of no real importance, though.

On the MP-draining issue, I was referring to Rage & Run, which is the SCC NMG Rager's way of casting Rasp. No magic there. The whole premise of these boss battles, partly, was inventing ways of making Gau invulnerable in as many situations possible.

Then the idea of Rasping Master Pug's 1200 MP through a Rage should be abolished as I don't see how he could survive all the counters and attacks unless he's having 9999 HP (Auto-regen status could help) and if your amount of steps is very low.
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Postby Djibriel » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:47 pm

Most of the things have been updated. Version 1.2 with all the things wrong in 1.1 corrected, will be seeing the lights of day pretty soon now.

One other correction which wasn't true: Tomb Thumb cannot be met in the same room as Pug. Take a look at monster formations 166 and 167 for the reason.

Thanks; it's been too long since somebody gave some negative feedback on that thing :)
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Postby Novalia Spirit » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:05 pm

I was talking about the M-I-A-B Pugs.

Glad I could help. :P
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Postby Djibriel » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:17 am

Would you mind if I used some info from your Flare Star document? You'll get props for it obviously, and I won't even be using the whole thing as I'd just like to point one so of the best ones (I specifically liked the deployment of Io versus Strom Drgn).
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Postby Assassin » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:57 am

Most of the things have been updated. Version 1.2 with all the things wrong in 1.1 corrected, will be seeing the lights of day pretty soon now.


the gibberish at the top of the guide hasn't been fixed, nor have the numerous gibberish apostrophes (Ctrl+H, brotha). nor has the URL to my webpage. nor has the deal about adding 13 to the Veldt group # (though understandable, as that post was very recent).

you changed "i90East" to "I90East" when it was supposed to be "i90east" (he himself must've corrected it that way on his website):

http://www.mnrogar.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... c&start=74

"Death, Petrify, and Zombie lose permanent status beginning battle, but not immunity -" and Allo Ver haven't been added to the bugs section; i'm guessing by your lack of disagreement you thought they were worthy suggestions..

the Girl and Sleep battle is still missing Train from the Attacks list.

you still haven't fixed the Rage and Run for final Kefka. as mentioned in a January email, you want to attack when bit 0 of variable 0 is set, or as soon as you see his "inspirational" message. so this sentence:

In short, you're safe as long as you attack while Kefka is casting 'normal' spells and run when Kefka is charging for Goner/just tried to use it.


should be flipped.

do you by any chance employ a roulette wheel or dart board in your updating procedure? ;) otherwise, looking sharp.
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Postby Djibriel » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:25 am

the gibberish at the top of the guide hasn't been fixed, nor have the numerous gibberish apostrophes (Ctrl+H, brotha). nor has the URL to my webpage. nor has the deal about adding 13 to the Veldt group # (though understandable, as that post was very recent).


Apologies; this only shows up when opening the thing in WordPad, so when I changed some stuff in NotePad I figured I had solved the problem earlier.

you changed "i90East" to "I90East" when it was supposed to be "i90east" (he himself must've corrected it that way on his website):

http://www.mnrogar.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... c&start=74


ehehe....

"Death, Petrify, and Zombie lose permanent status beginning battle, but not immunity -" and Allo Ver haven't been added to the bugs section; i'm guessing by your lack of disagreement you thought they were worthy suggestions..


No, you were right. I just forgot about them.

the Girl and Sleep battle is still missing Train from the Attacks list.


Fixed.

you still haven't fixed the Rage and Run for final Kefka. as mentioned in a January email, you want to attack when bit 0 of variable 0 is set, or as soon as you see his "inspirational" message. so this sentence:

Quote:
In short, you're safe as long as you attack while Kefka is casting 'normal' spells and run when Kefka is charging for Goner/just tried to use it.


should be flipped.


Done.

do you by any chance employ a roulette wheel or dart board in your updating procedure? otherwise, looking sharp.

I do not. What I did do was neglecting old assassin e-mails I had lying around dormant, full of errors I had yet to correct. What I also did was being very tired for the past week. The only thing keeping me from releasing 1.3 now is all the crap on how the monster formation packs change around when you reset/load/etc.
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